A list of concerns

Locked
Stuart444
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:54 am

A list of concerns

Post by Stuart444 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:34 pm

Hi,

This is a list of concerns that I feel should be brought up, from the more pressing concerns to the least pressing concerns but I feel I should bring them up and I know that some others feel the same way in some (or all) of the concerns I have listed below.

I know I may not be the most popular here, especially after this but I really like this community which is why I'm posting this thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Rule Enforcement

This is probably the most pressing of concerns and should be pretty obvious to people who are on the stream a lot/on the stream for more than just the Wiiplay/Game Over. A big reason is due to the length of time that Tom hasn't streamed, the rules have been very much lax but now that Tom is streaming again, the rules need to be enforced again...

This brings me to a point Donna (empressdonna) brought up with me when I was talking to her about this. We feel that because the rules are laxed during Game Over, it makes people think the rules are laxed all the time unless it's during a Wiiplay.

The rules should be fully enforced even during Game Over to avoid people thinking the rules don't need to be enforced unless it's during a Wiiplay.

This brings me to another Rule related issue
Rules wrote:I. DO NOT USE INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE
At no time will inappropriate language be acceptable, whether written or spoken. All censored material is controlled and filtered through ustream. Anyone using inappropriate language will receive warnings. A third warning will result in a temporary thirty-minute ban. Censorship evading will not be tolerated.
Now I don't know if and how this rule has been updated but this rule hasn't been followed too much at all. People do censor evade and I'll admit doing it myself, so have others but this may not be updated since it still mentions ustream but if that rule is still in effect, then it should either be gotten rid of entirely (meaning taking out banons ban system for language) or enforced fully.

Sexual Jokes would also come under inappropriate language and even Banondorf has made a joke (this is from last night) which was sexual, (the joke ended with 'blow job' so that should be enough to know it's too much under the current rules). The mods AND the BOT should be the subject to the rules as they are the ones that set the example. What's worse is that the bot is owned by you Tom so if the bot is seen breaking the rules, it gives the impression that it is okay to not follow the rules.

To end this section, I will say that the rules as a whole should be enforced fully or gotten rid of be they parts of the rules (like inappropriate language) or all of the rules.

2. Banon, his scripts and audio cues

First of all, I'll get what may be considered the most annoying for anyone who puts on the stream to listen to the music.

When no one is talking in the chat, banon says every 10 - 15 minutes "It's quiet, too quiet" and this will honestly annoy anyone who is on the chat/stream long enough just listening to the music. This audio cue needs to be removed as it is perhaps one of the most obvious reasons for people to be annoyed and not want to stay on the stream since not everyone will be chatting.

Secondly, the LONG winded jokes should to be removed. They can be seen as spam (being posted over several irc lines in the space of a few seconds) and look quite messy. The short jokes that only take up a line is fine (for reference, line being anything with a time stamp, I am not talking about sentences which are shown with a full stop at the end) and don't make the chat look messy.

His inappropriate jokes also need to be removed UNLESS you get rid of the inappropriate language rule (see above at number 1).

Finally, he needs to pm people (/msg) rather than use the notice command (/notice) for the rules, the forum link, etc as it clogs up the chat room and if there is a lot going on at the time, people won't even see the /notice. Not only that but in the mibbit chat on tombobblender.com, people won't even see the topic which is posted in blue as soon as you enter the chat

3. Wyvern and Quicknicks

As should be obvious, Wyvernsage08 has been at Toms a lot and due to this, he has an unfair advantage which he exploits when it comes to quick nicks. He has NO delay on his side because he is at Toms and without any of the usual stream games that used to be on, it's one of the few ways to earn DP that are consistent.

There are others that have called it outright cheap that he gets quicknicks before anyone else because he is at Toms and has no delay. At least one person has said to me "what's the point of having minigames if nobody else has a chance?".

In the end, myself and others feel that this is cheap and unfair on others

4. Outdated rules, forums, stream images and website

These are probably the least pressing concerns but they are worth listing at least.

The rules themself are outdated, an example of an outdated rule is that we can post links with permission as long as it's not a spam link or advertising or anything like that. This also needs updated on the screen image that talks about Links, another example is the rules keep making reference to ustream which is WELL outdated.

This ustream thing however is shown on the rules, the stream images, the forums AND the website. The website and stream images are down to you Tom but there is plenty of moderators on here that may know all the updated rules (or can get them from you Tom) and could update all outdated information on the forums.

Not only that but Yokai brought up reorganizing the forum a few years back and it essentially didn't happen:

http://www.tombobblender.com/forum/view ... ?f=4&t=186

I feel this should be considered and done asap along with moving outdated threads to the archived section of the forum. Again you have plenty of moderators and they should have permissions to do this stuff (and if not, upgrade one of the people you trust to admin since only you and Guru who is busy a lot these days are admins but mods should at least have access to editing peoples threads so they can update the rules and move threads from one forum to the archive forum)

Since the rules are linked by banon, they should be updated in any case so as to NOT CONFUSE the new users or even old users who aren't aware of any changes in the rules.

People may find you through google as well and see your website so outdated info there and on your stream (stream images) can confuse people.

Some problems with the website:

Ustream references

The about page is an image: http://www.tombobblender.com/images/about.jpg - this makes it harder to update than if it was a plain text/mark up solution but that said, if someone doesn't mind changing the image/editing the image to update it then fair enough.

There IS no blog page, "Not found" error is shown when you click on it so that should really be gotten rid of.

A more annoying issue for me but I doubt many others will care: http://www.tombobblender.com/images/tbbpage_19.jpg - should be updated to say 2010 - 2012 or something like that.

As you see, this section is the least pressing concerns and some of them are small niggles on my part (mainly the website stuff since the rules/forum/stream images are at least somewhat important)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This might have been a long post but I hope at least some people read it. I also hope if anyone agrees or disagrees, please post. I do know as I've said in some of these sections that I'm not the only one who feels this way in regards to certain issues above (From most to least concerns as I said above).

In any case, I felt it would be good to post this here as these are community concerns all the same.

Thanks for reading
Last edited by Stuart444 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
empressdonna
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:42 pm
Location: Glasgow, UK
Contact:

Re: A list of concerns

Post by empressdonna » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:07 pm

Some of the issues above I've heard other members speak about either publicly in the chat or privately with myself / others.

We did try bring up the banon sounds issue up in the chat, but at first there was a lot of confusion as to what was meant by what we said (i.e someone thought we wanted to remove all sounds from Banon, which isn't the case.)

The quicknick issue was brought up last night when a chat member mentioned that the sound was delayed which myself, stu and someone else mentioned that wyvern is at Tom's and is able to hear the quicknick before anyone else due to the inherent delay that comes along with streaming (meaning that everyone in the chat except for Wyvern has a delay).

The rules issue has also been brought up in chat before among members and moderators alike, however, the rules are still lax (or at least seem laxed) and in particular I agree which the Game Over thing mentioned above. It has always been this way for a long time but I personally think it may be a cause for people not following the rules unless it is during a wiiplay.

I do however think that if everyone including banon (in reference to banon's more rude jokes which was mentioned above) doesn't follow the rules in particular, the inappropriate language rule then the rules should be taken away as other users look to the mods / ops as an example of what to do or how to act in chat.

I was also curious as to what rating we are now. The moderators state to the chat to stick to PG-13 yet the stream slideshow shows a T for teen symbol. And the rating may also interfere with the rules such as the inappropriate language one in regards to what you are allowed to say and without banon PMing you a warning, people might get banned while there is no mods in the chat without realizing why they are getting banned (sometimes the stream is offline so people don't hear the 'gasp' sound).
Image

Image
please PM me before adding me to any messenger

http://dragcave.net/user/empressdonna
User avatar
KreamCheese
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:27 am
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Contact:

Re: A list of concerns

Post by KreamCheese » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:53 pm

To sum up my post from the beginning, I'm completely for finally redoing the forums.

First off: Updating.

I feel like it'd be a very good Idea to update everything from "Ustream" to "TwitchTV" (or whatever is being used... I'm pretty sure it's that) and also anything that may be relevant to an update, like the rules. This, like Stuart said, will help with any confusion with any new AND old users of the forums to help them find their way back and forth between the stream and here.

Next: Rules.

I feel like the reinforcement of the rules are something that need to be done as well. I admit that I, myself, have used not quite the best language from time to time, but we as a community have to remember that we are based around a "family friendly" theme (due to being a Nintendo community) and that we do have users that are probably around 14 or 15 years old on here, so we have to keep that in mind as well.

Also: Banon.

Banon is fun to have around a lot, but he as stated can get annoying every now and then. some of his long jokes do have some "explicit" stuff in them, and it's a few different posts long being posted in a matter of a second. Another thing is, I, too, like to just turn on the stream and just listen to the music every now and then, but when you hear Banon say things every quarter hour, it makes me want to stop listening. Another also, it can be funny sometimes with Banon's interruptions, for example like what just happened on the stream as I'm typing this up:

"[15:34] <+bigruss91> Anyone seen the new episode of " Megaman Dies At The End " by machinima?
[15:34] <@banondorf> yo MAMA seen the new episode of " Megaman Dies At The End " by machinima?, bigruss91".

but, to some people, it gets annoying to have it happen when something is seriously trying to be talked about.

This is basically all I have to say on the matter, i'm all for the revamp to the forums.
~Dance Kirby Dance~
<(^.^<) <(^.^)> (>^.^)>
User avatar
empressdonna
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:42 pm
Location: Glasgow, UK
Contact:

Re: A list of concerns

Post by empressdonna » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:20 am

E-mail sent to Tom

Myself to Tom: Another idea was to open up the oproom to a select group of members (perhaps veteran chat members?) so that they could bring up issues that they have without having to go through a mod (when you are not on). Again, unsure how this would work, but it is only an idea.

Tom:
we have a forum topic called 'Community Concerns' where users can post their concerns.
Because of this, I told people with issues to bring them up here. I understand we can tell Tom in PM and via e-mail too but through this format we can get an idea of how many people feel the same way or have similar issues.
Image

Image
please PM me before adding me to any messenger

http://dragcave.net/user/empressdonna
User avatar
yuki_fox_demon
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:56 pm
Location: in his heart.

Re: A list of concerns

Post by yuki_fox_demon » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:07 am

empressdonna wrote:
E-mail sent to Tom

Myself to Tom: Another idea was to open up the oproom to a select group of members (perhaps veteran chat members?) so that they could bring up issues that they have without having to go through a mod (when you are not on). Again, unsure how this would work, but it is only an idea.

Tom:
we have a forum topic called 'Community Concerns' where users can post their concerns.
Because of this, I told people with issues to bring them up here. I understand we can tell Tom in PM and via e-mail too but through this format we can get an idea of how many people feel the same way or have similar issues.
yeah, derp, i was half asleep earlier XD sorry, you can ignore that part of my comments. still, the rest of what I've said stands. Also, I don't think the oproom would ever be open to anyone other than ops. The sole purpose for it is for us to discuss moderation-related business. But you can still go to a mod and have them bring up the issue with Tom (like I've been doing for people).
Image
Stuart444
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:54 am

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Stuart444 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:11 am

Okay, I'll need to split this up.
yuki_fox_demon wrote:This is something you honestly should have brought up with tom directly (not to mention I have already brought up such things with tom myself as a mod.)
As Donna said, Tom pointed us in the direction of this forum. This point is moot
yuki_fox_demon wrote:for the rules being enforced, it has ALWAYS been that the rules are slightly more relaxed during game over, ONLY concerning the rules that are specific to wiiplay.
Did you read what I said? I said that because of the 'lax' rules during Game Over, people may think it's an excuse to not obey the rules during the day time (anytime before or After Wiiplay).
yuki_fox_demon wrote:Other than that, the rules have always been enforced both ways. The rules really don't have to be PM'd to people because there is a link on both the Twitch page and tom's main page where the Mibbit chat is. However, I again already talked to Tom about this and I believe Fox is working on it.
I just said above, when you join, all you get is a /notice which can go very quickly, a pm would mean the link would be in a little window that you can click on and see the stuff that is pm'd without worrying about a busy chat. Not exactly hard to grasp why that would be a GOOD idea. if you say they don't have to be pm'd, then they also don't have to be /notice either (/notice #tombobblender (text here) - incase you don't know, this is what banon basically does)
yuki_fox_demon wrote:As for the inappropriate language and such, on ustream, those words would show up as <censored>. It's hard to tell which words are on the censored list and which are not. Also, banon takes care of that. It's in his script, as you should have noticed when you were kicked for swearing that one time ;)
We are not on ustream, we've been on JTV/Twitch for MONTHS so bringing up ustream means nothing.

What is on the censored list is something Tom and other mods should know and have a list of, we users don't. If you TYPE <censored> then you actually get a /notice from banon but you get NOTHING if you swear unless you swear 3 times then you get banned and without knowing what words are on the censor list, it makes it even harder to avoid being banned. Hell the word 'twat' is on the list and over in the UK, that is considered a perfectly acceptable word.

If Tom doesn't want to update banondorfs scripts (and since you said, this should be brought up with Tom even though he said we can post concerns here, fine, I'll e-mail him the link RIGHT AFTER I finish typing this up). Tom has shown to update banondorfs scripts to add new things but not take away things so saying "He doesn't have time" or anything like that doesn't mean much. (No offense intended Tom. As I said in the front post, I like this community which is why I am bringing it up and I am trying to do it in the most sensible manner possible which is with a discussion thread due to exactly what Donna said about posting concerns here).


yuki_fox_demon wrote:We take inappropriate comments on a situational basis. When it's late, and we're actually talking about something, or if we're joking around and insinuating things, it's fine. Innuendos are not really that big of a deal, so long as they dont go too far.
I'm sorry but this doesn't excuse the rule I quoted above. It leads to a lot of inconsistency and quite frankly makes the rule(s) a joke that no one should take seriously.
yuki_fox_demon wrote:I believe a lot of the very inappropriate things banon sometimes says are because tom takes responses directly off websites and doesn't always know what is in them (you'd have to ask him on that one.)
I've guessed that but if he doesn't care to remove them... well it's just another "one rule for the users, another for the mods, and yes the bot is a mod so that counts.)
yuki_fox_demon wrote:Also, I've already asked tom about removing the jokes and he doesn't want to, so it stays.
The long winded ones? If so then all it does is annoy the users.
yuki_fox_demon wrote:And I have no idea what banon sound you're talking about, but I don't see why it'd be that big of an annoyance when he says a lot of other things on the stream as well. It's one of those things that Tom shouldn't have to change just because a few people are annoyed at it.
You've never been on the stream with no one in chat talking while listening to music? If so, he says "It's quiet, too quiet" and that does annoy people when he says it every 15 minutes when no one is talking.
yuki_fox_demon wrote:For the Wyvern quicknicks, he has no other advantage that the cohosts don't have, and we use it too. It's not that big of a deal. If you want DP that badly, ask me to donate it to you and I'll be more than willing. Honestly, if you don't actually plan on getting anything with DP, then I don't see what the problem is. Also, I dont think you should have called him out on that in the forum. :/ Like i said, you need to talk directly to Tom about these issues.
I don't actually care much about DP but I remember that a lot of other people did (back when stream games were the norm in the chat).

He DOES have an advantage over everyone INCLUDING the cohosts believe it or not. Do you know about delay due to streaming over the internet? Let's take an example:

Skype, when you say something, the other person doesn't hear it straight away, there is a delay. Now imagine the delay that cohosts and people watching the stream have? People can't hear quick nicks that well through Toms mic on mumble.

Wyvern is AT TOMS HOUSE and HAS NO DELAY because he isn't using mumble, skype or any other VOIP program. No cohost has that type of advantage. I've had at least one person tell me that it's cheap via pm and some others have been vocal about it in chat.

I think if there is going to be quick nicks, then they should be fair to all involved. Imagine if Tom started taking all the quick nicks? He would be able to and wouldn't have any delay problems. It would be considered quite unfair (probably even more so being the owner of the chat).
yuki_fox_demon wrote:I already told you in-chat that Tom and the mods were already talking about a lot of these things. Tom has been busy the last few years with school, moving, and work. He's doing all he can at the moment. We also already talked to him about updating the rules and he's working on that as well.
This is why delegation can come into play, delegate tasks to mods to at least update the rules to whatever the current rules are. And if you guys don't know the current rules (which you should enough to update them), how should anyone else?

As I said, if the rules aren't enforced then get rid of them. And that means having everyone follow them, not just users but mods and banon too.
yuki_fox_demon wrote:Donna: the chat itself is supposed to be PG-13, the STREAM is rated T for teen, usually for the games we play. Sexual innuendos tend to fall under that. And actually, the rules are NOT supposed to be lax. Tom has already informed us that the rules are to be enforced, as wiiplays are now regularly scheduled. Whether or not the mods actually do enforce them falls on them, not Tom.
First of all, PG-13 AND T for teen? one for the chat and one for the stream? All that does is confuse people. Not to mention games now have a !setesrb thing meaning that not all games are T anymore, some have been M (even before we got that, some stuff like horror games have been M anyway so saying the stream is rated T doesn't mean anything now)
yuki_fox_demon wrote:They can easily just be ignored. Inappropriate language is generally excessive swearing or blatantly sexual comments. We've never had a problem with innuendos, even on the ustream chat.
Ignored? So that is basically saying that the rules are not enforced on the banon or the mods... people tend to look to the mods as an example of how to act and this includes banon. Why should anyone care about the rules then? It's called inconsistency.
yuki_fox_demon wrote:if you have concerns, as I mentioned, speak with Tom.
And he said to post concerns here, honestly why do you think it's in community concerns?

Not everyone will want to speak up even if they have issues so if ANYONE feels the same way or feel similar (ie they feel the same way about one thing but disagrees with parts of it) then they can feel free to post as well.

Kream just showed that up above. Others have spoken in private about this stuff so it's not exactly isolated.
Stuart444
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:54 am

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Stuart444 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:15 am

New post because of how long that was

finally, I would like to add that, I am bringing this up in order to discuss it openly but that isn't exactly easy when making excuses like "ignoring banon's stuff that goes against the rules" or "Wyvern has the same advantages that other cohosts have".

It's all about discussion, not making excuses.

I like this community or I wouldn't be posting it here, I'd just leave. That is why I am posting it and I also want to make sure that anyone who feels the same way can post here as well. Anyone who wishes to discuss this can do so here.

Discussion is important but I am going around in circles so I'll leave it there.
Stuart444
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:54 am

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Stuart444 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:34 am

Ok Yuki, for the record:

Your first post seemed like you were having an attitude with me so I responded in a similar way back to you.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of the post because I honestly feel like I am hitting my head against a brick wall. Instead I am going to copy and paste what I was about to edit into my above post until you responded:

Thanks to some quick mod tools at the bottom of the page (I've already told Tom about me having them when I shouldn't), I am going to lock this thread.

Honestly reading back, it seems like I am talking to a brick wall, I don't think any of the mods will really take what I've said into consideration nor do I think Tom will.

I KNOW I am not the only one who feels the same way in one/several of these issues but most people won't post here about them, in a one to one pm, they probably would spill their guts as they say.

I refuse to name drop anyone in particular here who feels the same way but I'm just thinking now, why bother when you feel like you're talking to a brick wall?

Tom, Yuki or anyone else who feels like they wish to discuss this with me can easily get me when I'm on the chat but I think this discussion is finished.

edit: ty for unlocking it Donna, didn't think much else would come from the discussion but Foxes post and one of the things (Quiet, too quiet) taken care of shows otherwise. :)
Last edited by Stuart444 on Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Foxtrot200
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:04 pm

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Foxtrot200 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:23 pm

Stuart444 wrote:Hi,

This is a list of concerns that I feel should be brought up, from the more pressing concerns to the least pressing concerns but I feel I should bring them up and I know that some others feel the same way in some (or all) of the concerns I have listed below.

I know I may not be the most popular here, especially after this but I really like this community which is why I'm posting this thread.
I'll start out by saying thanks for the feedback, really. We wouldn't really know what's wrong with the community if no one told us and most of the feedback we get is less than sufficient to go on.
Stuart444 wrote:1. Rule Enforcement

This is probably the most pressing of concerns and should be pretty obvious to people who are on the stream a lot/on the stream for more than just the Wiiplay/Game Over. A big reason is due to the length of time that Tom hasn't streamed, the rules have been very much lax but now that Tom is streaming again, the rules need to be enforced again...

This brings me to a point Donna (empressdonna) brought up with me when I was talking to her about this. We feel that because the rules are laxed during Game Over, it makes people think the rules are laxed all the time unless it's during a Wiiplay.

The rules should be fully enforced even during Game Over to avoid people thinking the rules don't need to be enforced unless it's during a Wiiplay.

This brings me to another Rule related issue
Rules wrote:I. DO NOT USE INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE
At no time will inappropriate language be acceptable, whether written or spoken. All censored material is controlled and filtered through ustream. Anyone using inappropriate language will receive warnings. A third warning will result in a temporary thirty-minute ban. Censorship evading will not be tolerated.
Now I don't know if and how this rule has been updated but this rule hasn't been followed too much at all. People do censor evade and I'll admit doing it myself, so have others but this may not be updated since it still mentions ustream but if that rule is still in effect, then it should either be gotten rid of entirely (meaning taking out banons ban system for language) or enforced fully.

Sexual Jokes would also come under inappropriate language and even Banondorf has made a joke (this is from last night) which was sexual, (the joke ended with 'blow job' so that should be enough to know it's too much under the current rules). The mods AND the BOT should be the subject to the rules as they are the ones that set the example. What's worse is that the bot is owned by you Tom so if the bot is seen breaking the rules, it gives the impression that it is okay to not follow the rules.

To end this section, I will say that the rules as a whole should be enforced fully or gotten rid of be they parts of the rules (like inappropriate language) or all of the rules.
I agree that the rules need to be enforced, but they also need to be revised. Many times over the past couple of years have I become frustrated or stressed because someone was doing something they shouldn't have been doing and we just let it slide or undo the ban set upon them. It's as though the rules are a joke anymore and it can't continue.

About stream officials following the rules, this is a definite yes and rule breaking shouldn't be tolerated among them. Might I remind all you moderators that the stream officials represent Tom and the stream and making yourself look bad makes Tom look bad as well. We can't have that and if it continues, consequences will have to be dished out for it. Keep in mind that I am no exception to this. (I realize I've been guilty of such behavior from time to time, as well.)

This is why I'm proposing we change a few things:
  • First, and foremost, revise the rules:
    The rules are outdated and, while they worked on ustream, they don't always work here. We are bigger than we were when they were written and we've moved away from our ustream-based chatroom to a general IRC network where certain systems and rules don't make much sense to enforce (URLs and nicknames to name a couple).
  • Second, apply a zero-tolerance policy to Mumble and cohosts:
    The stream is what this community is based on and it represents us more than the chatroom, regardless of how much discussion goes on in either place. Furthermore, the stream is recorded and archived on JTV for all to see. If someone were to go through Tom's videos and see someone being rude and offensive, they would be less likely to join us. It would give us a bad image. There have also been an abundance of unfocused cohosts during Wiiplays and Game Over lately. Although Game Over is a free segment, it gets boring and downright obnoxious when cohosts want to talk about their cat or some game while Tom is playing something else.
    • Also, we need to have a cohost limit. Too often have 5 or 6 people joined the On-Air Cohosts channel and started talking over each other only to make the stream an annoying, unintelligible mess. I am, honestly, tired of this and I don't want to see it happen again. I understand people want to talk, but 6 people is often too much to coordinate and most of their discussions can be carried out in the chat.
Stuart444 wrote:2. Banon, his scripts and audio cues

First of all, I'll get what may be considered the most annoying for anyone who puts on the stream to listen to the music.

When no one is talking in the chat, banon says every 10 - 15 minutes "It's quiet, too quiet" and this will honestly annoy anyone who is on the chat/stream long enough just listening to the music. This audio cue needs to be removed as it is perhaps one of the most obvious reasons for people to be annoyed and not want to stay on the stream since not everyone will be chatting.

Secondly, the LONG winded jokes should to be removed. They can be seen as spam (being posted over several irc lines in the space of a few seconds) and look quite messy. The short jokes that only take up a line is fine (for reference, line being anything with a time stamp, I am not talking about sentences which are shown with a full stop at the end) and don't make the chat look messy.

His inappropriate jokes also need to be removed UNLESS you get rid of the inappropriate language rule (see above at number 1).

Finally, he needs to pm people (/msg) rather than use the notice command (/notice) for the rules, the forum link, etc as it clogs up the chat room and if there is a lot going on at the time, people won't even see the /notice. Not only that but in the mibbit chat on tombobblender.com, people won't even see the topic which is posted in blue as soon as you enter the chat
Banon's script problems can be attributed to feature creep and script development over a 4 year period of time. Banon started out as a simple bot that banned people for inappropriate language and responded to "lord Banondorf, ." Since then, he has acquired games, an economy system, stream management functions, and simple chat AI. I'd say he's LONG overdue for a rewrite.

About his chat messages, I'll admit they get spammy from time to time. It may help to know that Banon's messages are not set on time intervals, though they should have some flood prevention measures. (That Peppy Hare sound clip you're complaining about could also be fixed with some sort of flood prevention system.)

His jokes and stories come from the internet. Though I don't know the origin of the jokes, I know that the stories come from FML. It may not be a bad idea to look into the scripts that pull this information and see how they can be made to scan for inappropriate language and message length.

Also, he probably should use /msg instead of /notice to send his welcome messages, now that I think about it, since the Mibbit client is so small and it usualy gets rolled off screen pretty quickly.
Stuart444 wrote:3. Wyvern and Quicknicks

As should be obvious, Wyvernsage08 has been at Toms a lot and due to this, he has an unfair advantage which he exploits when it comes to quick nicks. He has NO delay on his side because he is at Toms and without any of the usual stream games that used to be on, it's one of the few ways to earn DP that are consistent.

There are others that have called it outright cheap that he gets quicknicks before anyone else because he is at Toms and has no delay. At least one person has said to me "what's the point of having minigames if nobody else has a chance?".

In the end, myself and others feel that this is cheap and unfair on others
I've pointed this out before. A solution to this would be to disallow quicknicks to be triggered from a user with the same address as Banondorf.
Stuart444 wrote:4. Outdated rules, forums, stream images and website

These are probably the least pressing concerns but they are worth listing at least.

The rules themself are outdated, an example of an outdated rule is that we can post links with permission as long as it's not a spam link or advertising or anything like that. This also needs updated on the screen image that talks about Links, another example is the rules keep making reference to ustream which is WELL outdated.

This ustream thing however is shown on the rules, the stream images, the forums AND the website. The website and stream images are down to you Tom but there is plenty of moderators on here that may know all the updated rules (or can get them from you Tom) and could update all outdated information on the forums.

Not only that but Yokai brought up reorganizing the forum a few years back and it essentially didn't happen:

http://www.tombobblender.com/forum/view ... ?f=4&t=186

I feel this should be considered and done asap along with moving outdated threads to the archived section of the forum. Again you have plenty of moderators and they should have permissions to do this stuff (and if not, upgrade one of the people you trust to admin since only you and Guru who is busy a lot these days are admins but mods should at least have access to editing peoples threads so they can update the rules and move threads from one forum to the archive forum)

Since the rules are linked by banon, they should be updated in any case so as to NOT CONFUSE the new users or even old users who aren't aware of any changes in the rules.

People may find you through google as well and see your website so outdated info there and on your stream (stream images) can confuse people.

Some problems with the website:

Ustream references

The about page is an image: http://www.tombobblender.com/images/about.jpg - this makes it harder to update than if it was a plain text/mark up solution but that said, if someone doesn't mind changing the image/editing the image to update it then fair enough.

There IS no blog page, "Not found" error is shown when you click on it so that should really be gotten rid of.

A more annoying issue for me but I doubt many others will care: http://www.tombobblender.com/images/tbbpage_19.jpg - should be updated to say 2010 - 2012 or something like that.

As you see, this section is the least pressing concerns and some of them are small niggles on my part (mainly the website stuff since the rules/forum/stream images are at least somewhat important)
I've noticed this, too, but we lack a person to update the website for us. I'm certainly not competent enough in that area to do it myself and the person who is supposed to be doing it isn't here all the time and hasn't really been doing anything about it. Granted, they would be doing it in their free time for no money.

If you know of anyone who is willing to update the website for us, we'd be glad to hand over the files so they can be edited.

As for the forums, you're right, we need to archive a few things.


Again, thanks for the feedback. Maybe we can finally get something done.

EDIT: Here's the censor list that Banon uses. It's just ripped off of ustream with a few modifications. (I'm not entirely sure how Tom may have modified it since I gave it to him.) This same list has been in Proto's dropbox, which I believe most of the moderators are invited to.
Image
Stuart444
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:54 am

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Stuart444 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:53 am

Foxtrot200 wrote:I agree that the rules need to be enforced, but they also need to be revised. Many times over the past couple of years have I become frustrated or stressed because someone was doing something they shouldn't have been doing and we just let it slide or undo the ban set upon them. It's as though the rules are a joke anymore and it can't continue.
I can't argue since I've seen some of that myself.
Foxtrot200 wrote:There have also been an abundance of unfocused cohosts during Wiiplays and Game Over lately. Although Game Over is a free segment, it gets boring and downright obnoxious when cohosts want to talk about their cat or some game while Tom is playing something else.
While it's not one of the things I mentioned, I have actually noticed it in the last few days but I've not been here all the way til Game Over every night due to time difference so that is probably why I have only noticed it recently.
Foxtrot200 wrote:About his chat messages, I'll admit they get spammy from time to time. It may help to know that Banon's messages are not set on time intervals, though they should have some flood prevention measures. (That Peppy Hare sound clip you're complaining about could also be fixed with some sort of flood prevention system.)
I'm surprised Rizon hasn't kicked banon off due to flooding (which does happen depending on how much you post in seconds, I've had it happen during a copy/paste session in pm with Donna) so a flood prevention measure would probably work. Also that sound clip is the "Quiet, too quiet" one? If so, Tom has taken that off so thanks a lot Tom :D makes it more tolerable to listen to music while no one is talking in chat.
Foxtrot200 wrote:His jokes and stories come from the internet. Though I don't know the origin of the jokes, I know that the stories come from FML. It may not be a bad idea to look into the scripts that pull this information and see how they can be made to scan for inappropriate language and message length.

Also, he probably should use /msg instead of /notice to send his welcome messages, now that I think about it, since the Mibbit client is so small and it usualy gets rolled off screen pretty quickly.
Yeah, I know most/all of them come from the internet, my thoughts were that a lot who come into the chat may not realize he is a bot, especially if no one is around so seeing what looks like a Mod/Op act like that wouldn't give the best first impression.

As for the second bit, /msg would mean that the topic in blue should be seen providing there isn't a lot of chat spam in the mibbit client. (although banon also doing a "/msg {nick} Please use /topic #tombobblender for the current chat topic and/or game being played" would probably help as well for those that look at pms even if they don't click on the link to the forum/rules lol)
Foxtrot200 wrote:I've pointed this out before. A solution to this would be to disallow quicknicks to be triggered from a user with the same address as Banondorf.
Indeed, quick solution and if he did it still, it would just serve as an advance warning to anyone by like 5 seconds or whatever the delay is.
Foxtrot200 wrote:If you know of anyone who is willing to update the website for us, we'd be glad to hand over the files so they can be edited.
I've looked at the website and I'm not sure if I'd be able to do much. I mean I've done some web development stuff before and know XHTML pretty well/know CSS somewhat but the website doesn't look the easiest to update.

I'll give my thoughts on what could be updated though:

The banner could stay because it doesn't reference ustream and Guru/Rag are picking up the slack on the days Tom can't stream so "Every night at 9pm EST" still works.

The About page is a picture rather than plain text/mark up and so is most other text which makes it hard to update (but it also means people can't copy/paste it though I think you could technically do that in javascript without the need for pictures.) and the blog page doesn't even have the same layout assuming Tom wanted to keep the blog page (if he did, I'd just advise wordpress or similar free blog software assuming someone with access to the server could install it).

Besides that, the schedule and faq could always be moved onto the website but with them being on the forum, it gives people can incentive to go on the forums in general.
Foxtrot200 wrote:EDIT: Here's the censor list that Banon uses. It's just ripped off of ustream with a few modifications. (I'm not entirely sure how Tom may have modified it since I gave it to him.) This same list has been in Proto's dropbox, which I believe most of the moderators are invited to.
Thanks for the list.

Thanks for the post as well Fox, I saw this last night (didn't see the post, just saw that you replied) and went to bed before reading it since some of my posts above may have sounded more angry due to lack of sleep. Didn't want to make the same mistake again.
Stuart444
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:54 am

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Stuart444 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:01 pm

Looking at the website source code just now...

Does it use php or another server-side language? If it's strictly XHTML/CSS/javascript. I could give it a try if you wish to send me the files.

I have a local development server on my comp and if I could get it working the way it did on my old comp, I should be able to give my IP so you guys could see how the changes look.

although I probably wouldn't be able to get anything done until the weekend or later, I've got a busy week but I'd certainly not mind seeing what I can do with the site.
User avatar
InitialD
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:11 pm

Re: A list of concerns

Post by InitialD » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:15 pm

Stuart444 wrote:Looking at the website source code just now...

Does it use php or another server-side language? If it's strictly XHTML/CSS/javascript. I could give it a try if you wish to send me the files.

I have a local development server on my comp and if I could get it working the way it did on my old comp, I should be able to give my IP so you guys could see how the changes look.

although I probably wouldn't be able to get anything done until the weekend or later, I've got a busy week but I'd certainly not mind seeing what I can do with the site.

Yes, those are the only languages the website uses. PHP is going to be going in a lot later. The information on the main page below the stream and on the "About" page are image files so we can use any font we want and have it centered perfectly without having to worry about cross-browser compatibility.

The misinformation on the pages have been brought up to Tom before, but he has been pretty busy lately. Tom would be the one to tell us the new information to put up on the site. If any mods do have the updated rules you can send it over to me, I was unaware that any of the rules changed.

If you would like to do these updates Stuart I can send you the files as well.
ImageImage
Stuart444
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:54 am

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Stuart444 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:04 pm

InitialD wrote:Yes, those are the only languages the website uses. PHP is going to be going in a lot later. The information on the main page below the stream and on the "About" page are image files so we can use any font we want and have it centered perfectly without having to worry about cross-browser compatibility.

The misinformation on the pages have been brought up to Tom before, but he has been pretty busy lately. Tom would be the one to tell us the new information to put up on the site. If any mods do have the updated rules you can send it over to me, I was unaware that any of the rules changed.

If you would like to do these updates Stuart I can send you the files as well.
Please do, I'll be a little busy over the next week or two but I can certainly see what I can do about updating it. I'm alright with an image editor (though Donna is better so I can enlist her help) so I can see about updating the images themselves since they seem important then.

Do you have PSD files or something similar? if not and it's just JPG/PNG or whatever then I'll see what I can do with them.
User avatar
Foxtrot200
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:04 pm

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Foxtrot200 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:40 pm

InitialD wrote:
Stuart444 wrote:Looking at the website source code just now...

Does it use php or another server-side language? If it's strictly XHTML/CSS/javascript. I could give it a try if you wish to send me the files.

I have a local development server on my comp and if I could get it working the way it did on my old comp, I should be able to give my IP so you guys could see how the changes look.

although I probably wouldn't be able to get anything done until the weekend or later, I've got a busy week but I'd certainly not mind seeing what I can do with the site.

Yes, those are the only languages the website uses. PHP is going to be going in a lot later. The information on the main page below the stream and on the "About" page are image files so we can use any font we want and have it centered perfectly without having to worry about cross-browser compatibility.

The misinformation on the pages have been brought up to Tom before, but he has been pretty busy lately. Tom would be the one to tell us the new information to put up on the site. If any mods do have the updated rules you can send it over to me, I was unaware that any of the rules changed.

If you would like to do these updates Stuart I can send you the files as well.
http://www.google.com/webfonts

Not bad for one or two fancy fonts.
Image
Stuart444
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:54 am

Re: A list of concerns

Post by Stuart444 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:34 pm

Foxtrot200 wrote:http://www.google.com/webfonts

Not bad for one or two fancy fonts.
hmm *bookmarks*
User avatar
NintendoMan1
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:42 pm

Re: A list of concerns

Post by NintendoMan1 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:44 pm

I do think that sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish when someone is crossing the line and when moderators should step in however I do enjoy the freedom of game over (with boundaries) and the problem of people acting however they please must be limited to a certain extent.
Locked

Return to “Community Concerns”