Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

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Foxtrot200
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Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby Foxtrot200 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:40 am

Well, the Bukkit devs have finally released a 1.8 Recommended Build and I should be able to get to updating soon. However, it may take longer than it should. Why? The answer is simple: I've got big decisions to make.

With all the chaos that is 1.8, I see the game changing drastically; There are now pre-generated structures, people no longer need to build their homes, there are new mobs implemented and new ones in development, and there are new game-changing mechanics (hunger and health regen). If that wasn't bad enough, there's no guarantee that all of this will be persistent when 1.9 comes around...
I've been looking around to see what other server owners are doing and it's given me more problems than what I started with.

So, I've got some choices to make. To name a couple:

Server Format
Yes, I'm considering format change again. It seems that my previous approaches just didn't fit well with the way people are playing. One thing that I know will be removed is the economy. No one really uses it. People mostly just trade or give things away. They figure they can just mine more later and they are right to think so.
One of the things that prompts me to think about such things is the contrast in community behavior in vanilla and Bukkit: When we're running vanilla, everyone seems more community oriented due to the hardcore survival environment; They like to experience the thrill with each other.
With Bukkit, everyone is more relaxed and is generally content with their own space; It's a better build environment.
This brings up another question: What kind of environment do we want the server to adopt?
The way I see it, we have a few choices:

  1. PvP: Players go against players in a self-governing server and try to survive in factions with common law among individual groups lest anarchy and terror ensue. (Not ideal)
  2. Hardcore Survival: Players face the elements and the environment with nothing to protect them except for their weapons and their shelter.
  3. Freebuild Survival: Players build what they like while surviving in a somewhat protected world.
  4. Freebuild: Players build whatever they like, but they must build with their own materials. Invincibility or reduced damage is a common factor. Monsters are usually turned off.
  5. Creative: Players are given unlimited materials and various abilities related to construction, like instant-mine, so they can freely build all over the world in a completely safe environment. Creative worlds are generally a mess. (Not ideal)
  6. RPG: A hybrid with any game format, RPG environments are elaborate, heavily community oriented, and VERY popular among the Minecraft community. They usually consist of an economy system, cities/towns, skills, classes, and other features to make the world seem more realistic. Most RPG servers are either PvP/RPG or Freebuild Survival/PvP. None of these traits really "make" an RPG server, but most servers containing enough of these are considered RPG.

We are currently Freebuild Survival.

With the latest additions to Minecraft, I think a Freebuild Survival/RPG hybrid (sans classes) is a possibility for us because of the skills, though I am very much open to suggestions at this point. (Really, I always have been.)
Please, share your opinions. I need them or I may do something no one likes.

Old Worlds
My second problem is old worlds: We cannot keep using them any longer. Why? Well, as you may know, Minecraft 1.8 got a new world generator. This new world generator doesn't create seamless terrain when mixed with old worlds. Instead of nice flat land, you get ugly looking chunk splits like this:
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and regenerating the world doesn't fix the problem. This is what our current world looks like when regenerated in 1.8:
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As you can see, there is a forest where Tom's hill should be.
Some of you may not see this as a problem, but allow me to point out another contributing factor to my claim:
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(From the last backup that took place on 9-15-2011)
Notice the folder size: 791 MB
It's quite large. It takes me about 5-10 minutes to download it each backup on a 15mbps connection. (If you do the math, it's roughly 7 minutes)
If I let everyone keep generating that world, I can expect it to become twice as large with everyone wanting to play in 1.8 world, not to mention the quest for the strongholds.

This leaves me with 2 options:
  1. Make our pre-1.8 world secondary, disable terrain generation for it, and create a way for players to teleport to it.
  2. Package the pre-1.8 world into a compressed archive, put it up for download, and remove it from the server.
If option 1, the only question remaining is "Should build rights be given for that world?"

I know of servers that are putting their old worlds up as a sort of museum so people could see their previous artwork and the admins wouldn't have to worry about monitoring more than one world. I think this is ideal as it would please mostly everyone. (You can't please everyone.)

As you can see, there's quite a bit to be done here.
PLEASE post your opinions below, even if you don't care. I would very much like to know that you are at least paying attention.
If I fail to please the players, I fail as a server admin, so feedback is important.

Also, thanks for playing.
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BippoErnesti
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby BippoErnesti » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:23 am

Alright, here is the best input I can give you at this very moment. I say keep the current mode, Freebuild Survival. Pack and archive the old server map and put it up for download, because I for one would like to download it for the sake of archiving my own work. I believe that, despite the old map containing a lot of hard work and effort, making the server focus solely on the one new map is the best choice as it helps players concentrate their building.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I might edit this to better express my opinions if need be.
Bon Para Para! Bon Para Para!
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ModernHyrulian
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby ModernHyrulian » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:49 pm

BippoErnesti wrote:Alright, here is the best input I can give you at this very moment. I say keep the current mode, Freebuild Survival. Pack and archive the old server map and put it up for download, because I for one would like to download it for the sake of archiving my own work. I believe that, despite the old map containing a lot of hard work and effort, making the server focus solely on the one new map is the best choice as it helps players concentrate their building.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I might edit this to better express my opinions if need be.

^I basically agree with everything Bippo has said. The RPG mode sounds interesting, but I'm not sure how well it'll work since not many people log in at the same time nowadays, weakening the effect of a community.
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Foxtrot200
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby Foxtrot200 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:20 am

ModernHyrulian wrote:
BippoErnesti wrote:Alright, here is the best input I can give you at this very moment. I say keep the current mode, Freebuild Survival. Pack and archive the old server map and put it up for download, because I for one would like to download it for the sake of archiving my own work. I believe that, despite the old map containing a lot of hard work and effort, making the server focus solely on the one new map is the best choice as it helps players concentrate their building.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I might edit this to better express my opinions if need be.

^I basically agree with everything Bippo has said. The RPG mode sounds interesting, but I'm not sure how well it'll work since not many people log in at the same time nowadays, weakening the effect of a community.


Well, like I said, the RPG game type is loose.
The game type suggestions are nothing more than play styles. So far, I've seen people have fun building whatever they want in order to survive. There's really no standard for game types. We just fit the common definition for freebuild survival.

I just want to build the server to fit the community best. I've seen that RPG elements aren't used as much, but I'm thinking about trying mcMMO mostly because it increases a player's strength in the things they do most:
If you mine a lot, you mine faster.
If you farm a lot, you get more crops.
If you attack a lot, you deal more damage.
etc.

Really, the community defines whether or not a server is RPG. I can't really enforce such gameplay without kicking people out for not playing it so and I'm not about to do that. That's not how our server works.
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ModernHyrulian
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby ModernHyrulian » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:38 pm

McMMO sounds really interesting, actually. In my opinion, I think it's worth a shot to try it out on the server. It might get more people to stay longer lol.
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Foxtrot200
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby Foxtrot200 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:02 pm

ModernHyrulian wrote:McMMO sounds really interesting, actually. In my opinion, I think it's worth a shot to try it out on the server. It might get more people to stay longer lol.


That's what I'm hoping. I figure the skills system would entice players to grind for them. It'd create a base for an RPG community if everyone wants it, but it doesn't enforce it in case they don't.
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wildduder
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby wildduder » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:42 pm

I just want to build the server to fit the community best. I've seen that RPG elements aren't used as much, but I'm thinking about trying mcMMO mostly because it increases a player's strength in the things they do most:
If you mine a lot, you mine faster.
If you farm a lot, you get more crops.
If you attack a lot, you deal more damage.
etc.

hey fox theres a mod on bukkit called LevelCraft just like you where thinking about above. :D
-Wildduder
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Foxtrot200
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby Foxtrot200 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:00 pm

wildduder wrote:
I just want to build the server to fit the community best. I've seen that RPG elements aren't used as much, but I'm thinking about trying mcMMO mostly because it increases a player's strength in the things they do most:
If you mine a lot, you mine faster.
If you farm a lot, you get more crops.
If you attack a lot, you deal more damage.
etc.

hey fox theres a mod on bukkit called LevelCraft just like you where thinking about above. :D


http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/mcmmo/

I've had more experience with mcMMO. I'll check out levelcraft, though.
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Satyrane
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby Satyrane » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:50 pm

mcMMO sounds interesting; I'd be willing to try it.

Me personally, I like Hardcore Survival/Freebuild Survival best. I like the challenge of having to mine what I want to build, and think it makes for a more rewarding experience. Plus, items have zero value if they're freely available, which is the problem with an economy server as I see it. Finally, personally, I'd rather see fewer structures than be crowded out by them, and if people have to get materials for what they build, they're going to be more thoughtful about what structures they put up.

I think survival mode and the generated structures pushed us more into a community mindset out of necessity, and I enjoy that.
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Foxtrot200
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby Foxtrot200 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:53 pm

Satyrane wrote:mcMMO sounds interesting; I'd be willing to try it.

Me personally, I like Hardcore Survival/Freebuild Survival best. I like the challenge of having to mine what I want to build, and think it makes for a more rewarding experience. Plus, items have zero value if they're freely available, which is the problem with an economy server as I see it. Finally, personally, I'd rather see fewer structures than be crowded out by them, and if people have to get materials for what they build, they're going to be more thoughtful about what structures they put up.

I think survival mode and the generated structures pushed us more into a community mindset out of necessity, and I enjoy that.


Structures in Minecraft mean so much more when you have to work for the materials.
I think mcMMO will be a good addition. It'll create another motive to play.

Here's a screenshot of mcMMO with the Spoutcraft client:
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Here, you can see the stats available and the custom HUD elements that go with it.
The bar at the top will change to display the skill last updated. It's currently showing archery.
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KreamCheese
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby KreamCheese » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:24 am

I have personally played on many mcMMO servers and I really like them. To be able to do what I love, and get rewarded for it by extra-ness of that skill! Yeah, sounds good to me. On another note, I personally have a part of me that wants to keep the old world up and continue building in it (as I am in the middle of making something I find awesome >.<) haha, but I know that wont happen. So, I think I want to be a little greedy and have the old world available as-is for download, but also have it as a secondary world to the 1.8 world to show it off, per se; having building rights turned off for all players all the time. I worked hard for a lot of my creations and I'd like to keep a record of it on my computer and also show it off to other people. (if I absolutely had to pick, though, I would want it for download =P ) Well, that's my small two cents worth, I guess we'll see what happens. And Foxy, whatever you decide, I will be fine with it, because you're, well, you! lol =)
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Satyrane
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Re: Minecraft 1.8 Server Plan

Postby Satyrane » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:28 am

KreamCheese wrote:And Foxy, whatever you decide, I will be fine with it, because you're, well, you! lol =)


You have something on your nose there... XP

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